Vamps vs. werewolves - talk to me
I am a Death Dealer, sworn to destroy those known as the Lycans. Our war has waged for centuries, unseen by human eyes. But all that is about to change.
--Selene, Underworld
The first testament says "an eye for an eye." - The second testament says "love thy neighbour." - The third testament ... Kicks Ass!!!
--Tagline, Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter
I'm on a panel next week at the RT convention entitled, "Why Can't We All Just Get Along?" It will explore, with all the coherence we can scrape together at 5PM on a Friday, why vampires and werewolves hate each other.
Since werewolves don't even exist in my vampires' universe (Humans who turn into puppies? How Key-ute!), my approach to the panel will be a little more abstract. Meaning, I'll just make it up, with your help.
So where do you think the animosity comes from? Is it a natural conflict between hyper-physical thugs and elegant Nancy Boys? Between the (un)dead and the (intensely) alive? It's got to be more than the hairstyles.
Maybe this hostility is an unfortunate stereotype, bludgeoned to a gasping, choking near-death by a thousand films and books. They're both creatures of the night, so why shouldn't they pal around? Even Democrats and Republicans can root for the same football team. If vamps and weres ever joined forces, who would they fight? Us, or some third, scarier entity, like Abbott & Costello?
Help me out here. There are no wrong answers.
(Everyone join in, but like a teacher, I'm going to call on people:
All you RPGers (Andrew, Sharon, Rob, other Rob) confront these issues when you build worlds and characters. Kathy, you've read a million paranormal books. Cynthia, you write about these bad boys, give me your perspective. Catie, Robin, other authors--make something up.
And Greg, don't tell me you haven't seen Underworld and Underworld: Evolution. Someone give me its mythology so I don't have to rent it myself. There's a limit to how far I'll go for a panel.)
*A-Z Update: "Credit in a Straight World," by Hole, heading into (appropriately) "Creepy Crawling" by Chumbawamba
Labels: appearances, movies, reading, vampire series
15 Comments:
In my world they can live in harmony. My heroine is a vampire and her pet dog, a collie, is a weredog. The antagonist is a rogue vampire and he hangs with rogue weredogs.
Just because one writer says that they cannot exist together doesn't mean that in the world that another writes says that they can.
We as writers can and should be able to create any combination that we want. After all, are we not the masters of our characters fate.
Lindsay
Posted by:
Anonymous at 4/17/2007 12:03 PM
Posted by:
Anonymous at 4/17/2007 12:04 PM
Okay, so why do I think these two paranormal alphas don’t get along? Well, because they are alphas, both fighting for supremacy of the night. Many legends have vampires only being able to “walk the earth” at night (except for Stoker, but he said they were weaker during the day), and just as many legends say that werewolves can only transform during the light of the full moon (cough, cough—but that sure never happens in my stories). So, in my opinion, you have the night, a dark and dangerous time, and you have two powerful forces colliding—there is bound to be some bloodshed and competition.
And yes, I do think there is the image of the sophisticated, classy vamp versus the rough, wild werewolf—and opposites do so often clash.
Posted by:
Cynthia Eden at 4/17/2007 12:24 PM
After that, there was no going back.
Posted by:
Rob S. at 4/17/2007 12:44 PM
Ok, that's a bit on the sarcastic side but it can be once point of view.
In most of my world's vamps don't make any appearances. I haven't said if they are there or not. However, I have one world where vamps and werewolves coexist to an extent. Call it mutual weariness. Vamps due to their extremely long lives (Centuries) are charged with seeing all species get along. (Best equivalent would be federal government) Werewolves as the strongest after the vamps are Charged with maintaining everyday law (equivalent local police). They don't like each other but have similar purpose and tolerate each other.
Beth
Posted by:
Beth Caudill at 4/17/2007 12:58 PM
Lindsay
So true, and I think in today's saturated paranormal market, to sell to publishers (and eventually readers), one has to turn the conventions on their heads. Does your weredog change into a person? Is he basically a dog or a human?
What if, in an animal society, there were those who changed into humans every full moon? Would they be shunned by their fellow wolves or lions or gnats?
Anonymous, what if vampires and werewolves hunted together? Then the vamp could take whatever blood was needed, then leave the rest to the werewolf. Or the were-hyena, if the vamp drank the person to death instead of just weakening them. Though wolves in the real world aren't too proud to scavenge.
Cynthia, your point reminds me that they're both at the top of the food chain and have overlapping habitats (the night) and, er, diets. Natural competition.
Of course, not all werewolves are alphas. By definition some of them have to be betas and even omegas. Carrie Vaughn's Kitty books are a good example of an omega werewolf trying to survive in (and be protected by) a pack. At least in the first book, which is all I've read.
And Rob...I just...I can't top that.
Posted by:
Jeri at 4/17/2007 1:02 PM
Oooh, Beth, them's bitin' words. :)
I love your idea of a vamp bureaucracy with werewolves as the enforcers. There are so many cool ways to deploy the paranormals in stories. I guess that's why they're so popular.
Posted by:
Jeri at 4/17/2007 1:04 PM
I would assume as both being monsters technically that one would not like the other in that respect. Maybe the "alienness" of each other would negate off the other.
A piece of werewolf/vampire legend is in some cultures (Europe) there is thought that when a werewolf dies, he becomes a vampire.
Sapphire Phelan
Posted by:
Anonymous at 4/17/2007 2:08 PM
And then there was Cruella de Vamp, who decided she wanted a cloak made out of 99 werepups. Good thing the weres had established that neighborhood watch howl chain! Nick of time, and all that.
Posted by:
Jody W. and Meankitty at 4/17/2007 2:38 PM
Posted by:
Anonymous at 4/17/2007 2:39 PM
If your vampires are the type that sleep in crypts and are parasitic-corpses, they may offend the werewolves sensitive nose. (do you really want to sit beside the guy who has BO the scent of grave rot?)
But, writers can also easily create societies where the vamps and weres get along or are simply indifferent. I don't think they have to be enemies; it's all in how the world building is approached . As long as the writer creates a convincing reason for whatever the relationship, I think readers will accept it.
Posted by:
Kalayna Price at 4/17/2007 4:10 PM
We all know that vampires and werewolves have been around for thousands of years in too many cultures and in too many forms to count, but I don't remember ever reading that they had an adversarial relationship in historical myth. Does anyone else know? I havn't thought about it since my mythology electives in undergrade. Anyway, so IF there is no basis for the conflict in historical myth, which is the origin of these creatures, my question wouldn't only be "Why don't they get along?" I would also ask the questions: "Why don't modern day storytellers and the public want them to get along?" and "Has this conflict only been around in contemporary/urban myths?" Maybe WE don't want them to get along because we like the conflict. Maybe it's "us" not "them". You can't have unforbidden love without the unforbidden. We all "love to hate" certain characters. If they got along and played nice, who would we fear, hate, desire? Maybe "we" are all just kinky (which is not a bad thing to be)! Goodness knows the public loves their violence, too. The thought popped into my head after reading your "unfortunate stereotype..." comment(and you did say that there is not such thing as a wrong answer.)
However, it did also occur to me that maybe it's the garlic thing, my dog just LOVES garlic!
Posted by:
Anonymous at 4/17/2007 10:15 PM
Speaking as a dog cohabitor (I can't say owner as Gracie clearly owns us), any canine would instinctively sense something "wrong" about a vampire (looks like a human but not really human), not to mention that vampires don't necessarily have to confine themselves to human blood, right? Dogs seem to be good at sensing threats, so a human-but-not-human jonesing for blood probably would trigger fight-or-flight immediately.
(I guess I should have written "Writing as a non-writer" but the internal inconsistency would cause the comment to wink out of existence.)
Posted by:
Dave S. at 4/18/2007 11:39 AM
Posted by:
Anonymous at 5/22/2007 7:15 PM
Posted by:
Anonymous at 11/07/2008 10:33 PM
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